I answer your post here TINSC.
So, your basis for denying that this constituted genocide is:A. There is no official death tollandB. People who support calling it genocide are anti-Israel leftists.Pardon me, but Holocaust deniers do the same with A. and lower the Jewish death toll all the time. Holocaust deniers also deny that there was ever a systematic campaign to eradicate Jews from Europe, and claim that Jews were just some of the many victims of the death camps ... that the death camps were for all of the regime's enemies, which included certain Jews.As for B., well I guess it can be said that Holocaust deniers tend to be on the right side of the political spectrum, and like Hitler also tend to be anticommunist. Look, the Turkish line about the Armenian holocaust is the same spin, PR, etc. that Muslim regimes always take about their crimes and human rights abuses. Take the government of Sudan's denials about their killing and displacing millions and enslaving the rest. So of all the Islamist propaganda machines, why should we believe Turkey and no one else? Or even better ... why should we believe this Turkish regimes' statements about the Armenian genocide while rejecting Turkey's claims that Israel is committing human rights violations against Palestinians? Either this Turkish regime is truthful or they aren't. If you are going to accept what they say about Armenian genocide as fact, well then you are going to have to also accept their accusations against Israel over Operation Cast Lead as being fact as well. Look, you folks can keep trying to preserve Turkey as an ally all you want. Wishful thinking. The truth is that Turkey is now the enemy of Israel and the U.S. Second, don't think that Israel playing the Holocaust-denier role with the Armenians, and doing so solely because Armenia is less powerful than Turkey, won't have repercussions. The next time the "Holocaust denier" charge is made, that person will say "it takes one to know one."Gerald
"Look, you folks can keep trying to preserve Turkey as an ally all you want. Wishful thinking. The truth is that Turkey is now the enemy of Israel and the U.S."I share this observation, Gerald. Unfortunately, it is this observation that is motivating much of the political agenda behind labeling the Armenian Massacres as a genocide. We don't need 100 year old history to prove out today's Islamist hostility. Moreover, we don't need to call the Armenian Massacres a "genocide" and hang it on today's Turkey. Just because it wasn't a genocide does not leave the Ottoman Turks "not guilty" of a massive crime. Last but not least, I think the Turkish government has always been cowardly about discussing the history of the massacres. Yes, the agenda of many were anti-Turk, but there is also empirical history that needs to be examined and the Turks have always been a bit cowardly about that. Here is where I think the modern Turkey can be severly criticized.Some people just need words like "genocide" because they can't articulate a crime any other way. On this issue: Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.
"Genocide" - a mass-murder campaign with a purpose of extermination of a certain population. No one is allowed, or is given a chance, to escape.1915 anti-Armenian massacres in Turkey saw Armenians deported out from certain parts of Turkic Occupied Armenia, and many killed on the way. Many/some (50%/30%) were allowed/did succeed to escape. IOW, what was planned was a total cleansing of a territory of Armenians, and not a total extermination of Armenians, who would be then not allowed to escape at all.Conclusion: the campaign of mass deportaion and murder of Armenians by Turks and Kurds (who were the main perpetrators) was just that - a mass murder and deportation campaign. An analogous action by Hitlerist Nazi Germany would be to send the Jews under their power to North Africa by the shiploads. Not to send them to the death camps and gas chambers by the trainloads, as they did.And to conclude that, we need not take on faith not one word of the Islamist MuZlim Supremacist Turkey.
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